Having built a big fanbase with his larger-than-life personality during his rugby career, you'd expect a chat with retired Blues forward Tom Robinson would be equally full of colour and quirkiness, but there is a much calmer, almost tranquil aura to the 'Big Red'.
Almost three months ago he shocked many with his decision to hang up the boots at the age of 30 — a decision seemingly out of the blue, with no serious physical injuries reported and a recent shift to Japan to continue his career, as many of our best do.
This is a man who knows he's made the right call.
"I've been really well," he grins. "I feel a real sense of peace that I've never felt before."
That peace is largely tied to the reason he decided to retire in the first place — a concern over the long-term impacts of concussion... a concern he's had for most of his life.
"When I was a young child, I was watching my dad was coaching a Northland U15s team," he recalled. "There was a boy that got a concussion, and he ended up having a brain bleed and had to go to war to talk again.
"I remember, after that, I was always afraid to go back to that field and play, because I was afraid the same thing would happen to me. I always kind of felt like I had this kind of underlying fear."
The fear stayed with him from club to school to professional rugby, where — after suffering three concussions during 2020 Super Rugby — a visit to a neuropsychologist for cognitive testing reassured he was okay and would be as long as he fully recovered before playing again.
The visit also added to his inner concerns.
"I left that going, 'Cool, I'm healthy... all I need to ensure is that if I get a concussion, I heal and I just go off', but from that point onwards, whenever I get a hit to the head, sort of any hit, I would just walk off."
Despite continuing to impress on the field, cementing a regular spot at the Blues and even entering conversations about a potential All Blacks call-up, off the field, Robinson's anxiety was getting worse.
"In the last game of the season, I got a decent knock and it had started that battle in my mind of was it a concussion, was it not and that battle would go on for days.
"When I wasn't playing, it was okay, because there was no fear that I was going to be playing again and get it, so I didn't want to get called in to the All Blacks, because that meant I could get another knock."
In the end, Robinson opted for a change of pace and scene last year, taking his talents to Japan to play for Sir Steve Hansen's Toyota Verblitz, alongside the likes of Aaron Smith and Beauden Barrett. He concedes, by that point, it was more for obligation than exploration.
"I had already signed, so I went over there and, to be fair, at the end of the season, I was excited to go. I just thought I could live with it."
Early into the season, he took another knock and those feelings rushed to the surface again, although this time, they were mixed with the grief of losing loved ones at the start of 2024.
"I just got to a dark place where I couldn't play," he said. "It was just a downward spiral, because the symptoms of anxiety and concussions are very similar.
"I remember getting to training one day and I couldn't remember if I brushed my teeth... I couldn't actually visualise me doing it. Suddenly, that voice just sparked up going, 'Oh my gosh, I'll get dementia, I can't remember stuff'.
"Then the anxiety became stronger and I had trouble sleeping, and — of course — I heard bad sleep was a symptom of concussion. It just spiralled."
Just as it seemed Robinson's problems were at their worst, a fateful meeting proved to be the spark he needed.
"Coach pulled me into his office and I just came clean about all of it, which was my biggest fear at the time, because I thought they'd think these knocks were fake," he said. "It was massive — they were really, really supportive.
"I'd been carrying this fear of anyone finding out that I had this. It was my biggest fear throughout my whole career, so when I told them, it was just this weight off my shoulders.
"It was just out there."
While still in Asia, Robinson began to focus on his mental health, and found a way forward through meditation and other spiritual practices.
"What I learned was that all my anxiety, suffering, was coming from unconsciously thinking about the past or future, and if I can just live life in the present, there's nothing to fear and that gave me a real sense of peace."
Now back in New Zealand, Robinson has used that enlightenment to set up a life coaching business online, working one-on-one with clients about their own fears and helping them realise their potential. He's also started leading yoga classes in his local Mangawhai community, north of Auckland.
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"I'm really drawn and passionate about passing on these teachings and practices, so people can go from their place of where they currently are to then a place of real peace."
Robinson is seemingly the perfect guide, having already found his own.